In Conversation with Desiderius Erasmus
I chat with one of the stars of my forthcoming novel, Broken Bonds.
Over the next three weeks, I’ll be doing something a little different. I am traveling back in time to the year 1524 to meet the three main characters of my book Broken Bonds: A Novel of the Reformation, releasing November 12. Today, I caught up with Desiderius Erasmus in the Swiss city of Basel.
Amy: Erasmus, it’s good to meet you.
Erasmus: I am most honored to make your acquaintance.
A: No need for such formality. Now, how old are you?
E: About fifty-eight years old.
A: What do you mean ‘about’?
E: I only know what my mother told me, and she had a poor mind for details.
A: I see. Where are you from?
E: The Netherlands. I was born in Rotterdam, but spent my childhood in Gouda.
A: Do you have fond memories of the place?
E: I cannot say that I do. We were very poor and few people there shared my interests.
A: I’m sorry to hear that. Who did you live with?
E: My mother and my brother, Pieter. Our father was not around.
A: Oh. Was he dead?
E: No, he was a priest.
A: Ah. That’s awkward. Why did you end up leaving Gouda?
E: Both my parents died of the plague, so my brother and I were sent to a monastery to live. I had little choice but to take the holy vows. Just one of many things in which I have been dreadfully unlucky.
A: How else were you unlucky?
E: I have a terrible constitution. I cannot abide fish, and that was most of what was available in the monastery. So I received permission to eat meat during Lent.
A: I have to say, you don’t look like a monk.
E: I was given a dispensation to leave the Netherlands and study in Paris. From there, I began traveling to many places—Cambridge, London, Tuscany, Venice. It was in Italy that I was assaulted on account of my monk’s habit, so I was given permission to not wear it.
A: Hmmm…You certainly seem to receive a lot of dispensations. But tell me, what did you study in Paris?
E: Philosophy, sadly, but I managed to get out of that and move on to the study of good letters.
A: What do you mean by ‘good letters’? I didn’t know some were better than others.
E: I mean the study of the ancient classics. I was already proficient in Latin, but I taught myself Greek as well. Then I could read all the ancient writers. They have much to teach about virtue and building a just society. I seek to pass on that wisdom to people in my day.
A: That sounds like fun.
E: Well, sometimes it is, but I cannot say I have been having much fun of late.
A: Oh. Why’s that?
E: Never become famous!
A: I don’t think I’m in much danger of that. How did you become famous?
E: When I was in England, I began writing books on various subjects. Some of these sold well, and one of them became a best seller. It was a silly little thing I wrote for my friend, Thomas More: The Praise of Folly. After I wrote that, no one would leave me alone.
A: These days, we call that ‘going viral.’
E: Viral?! I do hope you aren’t carrying any diseases! I have already canceled so many travel plans because of the plague!
A: I assure you, it means something different in our age.
E: Good. Where was I? Yes, I was becoming rather famous. Some people were pledging financial support, but never enough. These rich people will promise you money and then never send it! It’s as if they don’t really care about helping the disadvantaged!
A: I’m sorry to say not much has changed in the year 2024.
E: I am anything but shocked. But surely morals cannot be so bad in your day as they are in mine! Here people are given over to all kinds of religious superstitions, traveling for weeks to kiss a purported piece of the true cross rather than helping their neighbor who has no bread. That would have been a better Christian act! Well, I hope to encourage people to live as Christ commands and ancient wisdom dictates. That is why I wrote the Handbook of a Christian Knight. It advises one how to be victorious against the world, the flesh, and the devil.
A: Do you know a lot of knights?
E: Not knights in the literal sense. I mean Christian knights: pilgrims on the path to salvation.
A: Ah. So once you became famous, what did you do?
E: I began translating many ancient works. My greatest success was the New Testament. I managed to gather up Greek manuscripts and produce a new Latin translation. Another best seller, although it did bring me some grief, for my translation differed from that of Jerome, that great Church Father. Some people were very upset.
A: Again, I think you’ll find that people today are pretty much the same. Always getting upset.
E: Well, I too am upset! No sooner had I done all of this than a German monk began making a terrible fuss over the corruption in the Church. At first, I welcomed it. After all, I have been saying many of the same things for years. But it turned out that he was extremely vain. Thumbed his nose at all the Church authorities, could not be taught, ended up excommunicated.
A: Wait…Are you talking about Martin Luther?
E: The very man. Now all I hear every day is, ‘Luther! Luther! Luther!’ He is splitting the Church in two. How can one save the Church by splitting it? I fail to see his logic. He surrounds himself with the worst sort of people. Always, they attack me in their pamphlets, telling terrible lies. I have tried to shut down the printers, but it seems the whole world is gone mad. The rule of law means nothing anymore.
A: I’m sorry to hear that.
E: Not half as sorry as I am! Now, the pope is pressuring me to write a book opposing Luther. I am no theologian—I am a translator and commentator. Why can’t he understand that? And the English king has been pressuring me as well.
A: Which king is that?
E: Henry VIII. He seeks to present himself as a perfect son of Rome ready to defend the truth, but everyone knows he married his sister.
A: His sister?!
E: Well, his brother’s wife. Same thing.
A: So are you going to write against Luther?
E: I cannot please anyone. Already, those who are loyal to Rome say I do not criticize Luther enough, while those loyal to Luther say I don’t criticize Rome enough. Now, I must write a book, but it is certain that whatever I write will please no one.
A: I can see why you say it’s a bad thing to be famous.
E: Truly, you have no idea.
A: Lord willing, I never will. I’ll let you go so you can get started on that book.
Come back next week for my conversation with Martin Luther!
More articles about Erasmus by yours truly…
“The Two Erasmuses, Part 1,” Modern Reformation, 27 August 2024
“The Two Erasmuses, Part 2,” Modern Reformation, 29 August 2024
“Erasmus and the Unintended Reformation,” 1517, 12 July 2024
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I enjoyed the interview and look forward to hearing from Dr. Luther
The mention of Erasmus' parents reminded me of the novel written about them, 'The Cloister and the Hearth' by Charles Reade, published in 1861. My father had a vintage copy on his shelf. It was written in the popular historical novel style of its era - a sort of literary Pre-Raphaelite effect.